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You Say Gatorade, I Say Bacon

National security comes home to ruck.

Words: Laicie Heeley
Pictures: Marc Johns / Cast from Clay

On this episode of Things That Go Boom, we look at some of the ways civilian and military cultures are merging — and diverging — after two decades of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. If Americans are distanced from the messy work of national security, how can the Biden administration have an honest conversation with them about priorities?

Listen and subscribe now on Apple PodcastsStitcherSpotifyPocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts to receive a new episode every two weeks.

GUESTS: Lacey Hopper, rucking aficionado; Timur Nersesov, US Army Reserve Officer; Loren DeJonge Schulman, Center for a New American Security.


Who signs up to fight? Dave Philipps and Tim Arango, The New York Times.

Biden’s Foreign Policy Starts at Home, Peter Nicholas, The Atlantic.

// This episode comes at a chaotic and frightening time in Afghanistan, as Taliban fighters pour into the capital and US troops rush to evacuate allies. The following organizations are just a few providing aid to those in Afghanistan who need help:

Doctors Without Borders

International Rescue Committee

No One Left Behind

Laicie Heeley

Editor in Chief

Laicie Heeley is the founding CEO of Inkstick Media, where she serves as Editor in Chief of the foreign policy magazine Inkstick and Executive Producer and Host of the PRX- and Inkstick-produced podcast, Things That Go Boom. Heeley’s reporting has appeared on public radio stations across America and the BBC, where she’s explored global security issues including domestic terrorism, disinformation, nuclear weapons, and climate change. Prior to launching Inkstick, Heeley was a Fellow with the Stimson Center’s Budgeting for Foreign Affairs and Defense program and Policy Director at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. Her publications include work on sanctions, diplomacy, and nuclear arms control and nonproliferation, along with the first full accounting of US counterterrorism spending after 9/11.


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